Balistics programs

[windchill]

  What is your favorite Balistics program and why?

1. is it easy to work with?
2. does have all the bullets to select from
3. what  Form Factor does the program compute from, G1 or G7
4. can you get it in a Palm Pilot style PDA
5. How far do you ussually shoot.

6. How often do you chronograph your Loads to comfirm Velocity?



Just trying to see what is out there, besides what I have been using ( Infinity and JBM)


RussT

[Sean P.]

http://www.precisionworkbench.com/

[windchill]

  Good web site with alot of information.

Am I correct ( and I may not be) in thinking that the program still uses the G1 Form for the projectile instead of the more compatable G7 of modern day bullets? They then produce an error code or make up code to recalabrate the proper BC of the bullet.  I might have not read that correctly? 

Things I like about it.

1. Field portable
2. Correctable input


Intresting.

Thank you Saun, Have you used beyond 800 Meters and what where the results?

RussT

[Sean P.]

Think of it more a a custom G7 or G6 profile for you bullet.

As you can see in the picture that even the G7 does not line up perfectly with the 210gr VLD
The program tweaks the G7 to reproduce real world ballistics using one BC.
I pushed this program last year on a steel plate at 1,932 yards and it predicted the flight path within a 1/2 MOA.
Lucas had the program predict his flight path with the 338 Lapua Mag at 1,850 yards within a 1/4 MOA.
But this is with the default DK (used to adjust you flight path) and when you use the calculate DK option it will give you a perfect drop.

[Lucas B.]

I was kind of stuck on G7 profile as well after reading Bryan Litz's book and using his software. That is, untill I tested the Delta IV ballistic program. I'm sure more bullet manufacturers will start giving G7 ballistic information, and ballistic programs in the future will be using G7 as well, but there will still be need for either multiple BC's or something like the DK funciton that Lex Talus Delta IV uses. So far Delta IV is the best progam I've used.

[windchill]

 Real world feedback. This is what I really need.   I may need to talk off line about some things in the very near future.

 Now if I could just get the money to own My own Vectronix PLRF10....  Any one intrested in buying a teenager???  Just kidding.

I used the Infinity program back in 05 to make hits at 1 Mile plus. There was alot to be desired on my first attempt. Once I had dope for the gun and distance things got alot better. hit ratios went from 30% to 65% on the windy Praries of ND. That little 7mm Bullet gets pushed around alot.

[Sean P.]

No problem
I have used the Infinity program before and had a hard time getting things to line up as I would like.
I worked with it for a few months and then gave it to a friend of mine.

[CWO RET USN]

I've been playing with this one for a few days now but I haven't been able to get to the range to check my actuals.

http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/BergerBallistics.exe

I've also found this one to be useful.

http://sites.google.com/site/freeballisticcalculator/

[Lucas B.]

The applied ballistics is good stuff. It's very good when using G7 BC's. I would put my money on the Delta IV though...

[tlanders]

A newbie here. I bought the Night Force ballistic program. What are it's weaknesses compared to what you seem to feel is the best, the Delta IV from Lex Talus?

I built a 400 yd range at my home and am using POI to figure out the muzzle velocity. I shoot with the scope at the predicted MOA elevation for the published velocity for the factory ammo. Then change the scope elevation until I am right on at 400 yds, then change the velocity in the NF program until I get the same elevation that I found at 400 yds. Then I print it and will be using it in my first competition this weekend.

I built a 6.5 Creedmoor rifle over the winter and can't wait to try it out. Had Benchmark Barrels build a 24" barrel, straight taper .925" dia at the muzzle, McMillan stock, Savage target action with REAL light accutrigger, and a Night Force 42x scope. Still haven't loaded my own ammo yet but need to because you can't find any Hornady ammo anywhere for this caliber. I have a few boxes, hope it's enough for the weekend.

I am concerned about a comment I read on this forum about OAL being 2.800" max for the short action Creedmoor. I put a Lapua 123 gr Scenar bullet into my Hornady OAL length gage and pushed it into my chamber. It turned out to be 2.834" long to just touch the rifling. If I load my ammo at 2.830" OAL, will I have some kind of problem?

I first tried the rifle with the 140 gr AMax ammo and trigger at 8 oz. and was disappointed in the results. After two shooting sessions (too busy to play) I have changed the trigger to 1# and 120 gr AMax Hornady ammo and was able to get 5 shots in a 2"x2" square last night at 416 yds. I did not have to change the NF Ballistic calculator velocity from the Hornady published 2910 fps and it was right on. The competition this weekend will reach out to 800 yds, I hope the NF program will predict my elevation correctly. Is the 1/2 MOA at 400 yds respectable for a 68 year old guy or should this rifle be capable of better results and I need a lot more trigger time and to drink some fountain of youth juice?

I am sorry for bringing up so many topics in one post, but I am trying to learn and get ready for the weekend.

Teddy

[Lucas B.]

The Nightforce Exbal program is very good... for a outline of how it stacks up to the Lex Talus Delta IV check here.... http://longrangeshooter.com/2009/11/ballistic-software-comparison-nightforce-x-ball-lex-talus-delta-iv/
Since you already bought the NF program I wouldn't spend too much time comparing it with other programs. To get better ballistic info try to use the multiple BC feature.... I'd try the following figures....

140gr Hornady A-max

.585 @ 2850 fps and above
.575 between 2850 and 2400 fps
.565 between 2400 and 2050 fps
.550 @ 2050 and below

I always confirm my drop charts before competitions... obviously time's running short for you in this regard. When you shoot the competition keep trak of your POI's and use that info for your future drop chart. Here's my take on drop charts...
http://www.shoot-farther.com/My_Homepage_Files/Page10.html

The OAL issue has more to do with your rifle than anything else. If you can fit 2.9" in your magazine then you're free to run up to that length. If you can only run 2.80" you will have to find a bullet or load that jumps well to the lands. I'm using 140gr VLD's and jumping .010" and it's working fine for me.

1/2 MOA at 400yds is respectable accuracy easily competitive in practical long range shooting matches. The key with those matches is a good drop chart and good wind calls IMO. I'm sure the rifle is capable of better accuracy but it may require more extensive load development testing several different powders, bullets, and primers. If you are the weak link (and agian, 1/2 MOA ain't bad) you'll see the groups shrink over time. I was also thinking of having Benchmark build me a 6.5 creedmoor (if I get a SAKO TRG 22) If I do I'will be happy to share load info. It seems that loads are working well from rifle to rifle. Ron from Benchmark is using my 7wsm load in his competition/long range hunting rifle.

I hope the shoot goes well for you this weekend.

[tlanders]

Thanks again Lucas. Lots of great tips on the "shoot-farther" link. I like the Exbal program and it seems to work fairly well for deer hunting. I didn't realize it had the ability to input numerous BCs. I have made a new drop chart based on your multiple BCs. The 400 yd MOA didn't change with your small reduction of BC and because the velocity is still above 2050 fps at 400 yds.

It was your UTube video that turned me on to BenchMark Barrels to begin with. I can't wait to start reloading and really get to play with this new rifle, just don't seem to have the time.

Teddy

[Lucas B.]

Glad to help... what part of the country are you in?

Your drop chart should be very close with the multiple BC's of course confirmed drops are always perfered. Let us know how the competition goes for you.

After reading your post again it looks like you might be using the 120gr A-max.... I'd try these multiple BC's

120gr A-max

.465 @ 2800 fps and above
.438 between 2800 and 2200 fps
.428 between 2200 and 1800 fps
.424 @ 1800 fps and below

I will sometimes bring multiple drop charts and choose which one based on elevation/conditions etc. You may want to bring one with multiple BC's and one without, you should be able to tell which one is working best when you start reaching beyond 600yds or so. The problem is we depend so much on the manufacturers rating of BC.

[tlanders]

Thanks for the 120 gr info. After I put in the 140 gr info, I guessed at what the 120 should look like and put it in. I noe put your info in and it increased the MOA to 6.375 at 420 yds which was my POI in actual shooting. I'll let you know how it goes. It's not benchrest, it's a tactical shoot from 100 to 800 yds. We shoot on barrels, behind doors, from helicopter slings, etc. I've never done any of it, so it will definetly be fun.

Teddy

[Sean P.]

Man thats not fair I want to go