Ethical Kills

[Sean P.]

Long range shooting has been criticized for some time as it relates to hunting.  There are people out there who take snap shots at long range game and claim the glory.  These people are giving us a bad name when there are people out there that take this very seriously and learn how to kill game farther than most would consider shooting at.  Bow hunters have been the biggest criticizers that I have seen so far.  I have a bow myself and have nothing against people that want to use a bow when hunting.  I don't understand why they get so excited over this topic.  So I am making an invitation to bow hunters to come and discus this topic.  I am not looking to start a fight, I just want understanding on both sides.   So please try to keep things on a respectful level.

[Chad]

well, much like the title of this topic states, I think "Ethical Kills" is the real dividing factor.

I think it is much easier for a distance shooter to get caught up in "buck fever" and decide to take a unethical shot, in hopes that it'll come through and score them a trophy, than it would be for a bow hunter to be in such a situation.

Another thing that may come in to play is just good ol' competition. I'm sure there are plenty of bow hunters out there that think they're hot sh** cos they can get right up in the games business before taking it down. But I do recognize the skill involved in long distance shooting, and I give no more credit to a bow hunter, than I do a distance hunter.

Just my 2 cents.

[Mike OBrien]

 :   Ethical Kills....good one. Any shot on a game animal should be ethical, regardless of the weapon or the distance. Some of the many factors are: One should be comfortable with their Weapon of choice, their equipment used, their choice of clothes and the sleep attained before the hunt. I have Bow hunted and Rifle hunted for years.  I have had to pass up some beautiful animals because something or other was wrong and I have been blessed with many harvests. I have stalked and allowed the game animal to be within feet prior to the harvest. I have used treestands and been 40'+ high. I have even slept up there over night to make a perfect shot at first legal shooting light. It is my humble opinion, regardless of the weapon of choice, that one must be able to make an excellent, first shot. If ever in doubt, be responsible and don't make it. That is the only ethical harvest. Practice often, Lighten up, Have fun and take a kid next time.

Mike :{)

[Sean P.]

I think it is much easier for a distance shooter to get caught up in "buck fever" and decide to take a unethical shot, in hopes that it'll come through and score them a trophy, than it would be for a bow hunter to be in such a situation.

I think you got a point there chad.  I think that there are to many distance shooter over estimate there ability to shoot.  There is a rule of thumb that I think ever long range shooter should do.  Practice 200 to 300 yards farther than you plan to hunt.  This will insure a comfortable shot in a situation that you know that you can make the kill.  The picture below is a dear I shot last year for short day hunt at the end of season.  I had been practicing all year at 600 and 700 yard targets so when this deer stepped out at 300 yards I felt just as comfortable shooting it as I would at 50 yards.  I, and everybody who shoot's long range work to increase there comfortable shooting distance.  If when you pulled the trigger thought to your self that I had no idea that I could make that shot.  Than that is a shot you should have not taken.  But if you are about to pull the trigger and think to your self I can and have done this before I can do this, then I think that was a ethical shot.

[Mike OBrien]

   Nice Poke Sean! All joking aside, 300 yards is a good shot!           :{)

[SamM.]

Here in Wva. Alot of people use 30-30 / 30-06. We have steep Mountains " we have Hills for you guys out west" thick terrain. Especially where I hunt. Not every offen you will get those 150+ shots. Ya some places you will. For buck fever is good one, Hear alot of hunters say they didnt get an good shot. So they shot for the hope. I think one of the post is good part in Ethical kills B.R.A.S.S. " Time you time for the right shot".

[vääpeli]

Here in Wva. Alot of people use 30-30 / 30-06. We have steep Mountains " we have Hills for you guys out west" thick terrain. Especially where I hunt. Not every offen you will get those 150+ shots. Ya some places you will. For buck fever is good one, Hear alot of hunters say they didnt get an good shot. So they shot for the hope. I think one of the post is good part in Ethical kills B.R.A.S.S. " Time you time for the right shot".

here in finland  the terrain is weary thick a lott off "bush" so longest moose kill i have made was on a power line 310meter´s(spine hit it dropt the moose on the powerline)
most comom are cals 30 06  and 308 and 9,3x62.
i wentto 458WM coz it not matter if the moose in a thick bush of smal trees one shot and it stops the moose on its tracks,and the flesh is not so badly torn and "bloodiet" like with the fast cals like 6,5x55swede.

ethical kills  one thing pisses me off is tha poeple use under power rifles like 6,5x55 and they dont know where to shoot with that call so they just aim att the midle of the moose and pull the tricker and then we hunt down a wounded moose for HOUR´S and those sad litle *****´s brag about it.

[Lucas B.]

It can be very aggrevating to see the results of poor shots by other hunters. The desire to not make the same mistakes and show respect for the game you persue, is the difference between hunters with ethics and those without.

[Sean P.]

I could not agree more.  There was a hunter up here that was going to shoot a buck out here that was at 300 yards.  He was asked if you shoots at that distance allot and he said the farthest shot he has made was at 100 yards.  He took the shot and blew the bucks jaw off.    Luckily they tracked down the buck and killed it but the point is still the same.  "When in doubt, back out"   

[Mike OBrien]

Ditto Gents. I was hunting my very first year with all of my uncles down in the Salmon Idaho area back in the late 70's.  I heard one of them shoot near me. Moments later, I saw a little buck go running by me with it's lower jaw blown almost completely off and swinging. With it's whole face bloodied from a bad head shot. Consequently, I have never taken a head or neck shot on an animal, ever. Talk about scared for life...wow. I felt so badly for that little buck. Another one of them did put it down shortly there after. I have never forgotten that experience. I coach/teach young hunters in our area to always make an ethical shot or not to take one at all. I also tell them that if they ever are involved in a shooting involving another hunter, I would be the first in line to testify against them in a court of law stating that they had been taught better. It is folks like that, that give the rest of us a bad name and a black eye in the general publics view.       :{)

[Sean P.]

For those of you who don't know Mike is a instructor for Hunter Safety.  When it comes to ethical kills he is the man to talk to. 

[Mike OBrien]

   Thanks Sean. Several years ago I wanted to stop being so selfish in my life and start caring about others. I got involved with kids and our hunting youth. Everyone has good experiences to share. Be an encouragement to others. Provoke them to always do their very best. Make time for our youth and share your time with them. Take them hunting, have some fun and bring an Kid!   :{)

[Lucas B.]

Very commendable Mike.

[Mike OBrien]

Thanks Lucas, the Glory and Honor are not mine to accept. I was challenged once to go to a website and to watch a short movie, so I did. It is at "livingwaters.com" Click on the banner "watch instantly HELL'S BEST KEPT SECRET. I totally had a realization....if you watch it, you will know. Now, I simply try to look at folks through His eyes, listen to folks through His ears and serve folks with His hands and abilities. Humbly, it comes from reading my Bible often(not always daily  ) and obeying what it says. Then I ask God to make me more like His Son. I simply ask for three things when I pray daily. That God would make me the MAN He wants me to be, the HUSBAND He wants me to be and the FATHER He wants me to be. Then one more, that He would show me how to be a blessing to someone that day, for His Glory. Nothing fancy..........just being Real.    :{)

[Red October]

  "When in doubt, back out"  

I do not apologize for posting Scripture here, because it is part & parcel to who I am, as a child of the King, and as an american. But it is my sincere hope that everyone will be mature enough to "accept MY diversity". 
Paul said "for whatsoever is not of faith is sin" in Rom 14:23.
Therefore Sean's rule of "when in doubt, back out" is essentially mirroring what God wants for us all in every aspect: when in doubt - DON'T!
Buck fever, as has been mentioned by a few posts here as the primary cause of UNethical shots/kills, is really the fruit of pride.
There is a great temptation, rooted in pride (aka buck fever), to take a shot which in reality is longer - maybe MUCH further - than the skills of the shooter. This is especially so in WV, or in other places such as Idaho's salmon river gourge, where steep mountains are separated sharply by narrow deep ravines.
What looks to be a mule buck only 150-200 yards away, is actually a bull elk at 400+.

From a ballistics standpoint, the "kill" power (kinetic energy of projectile) of some loads would automatically EXCLUDE them from consideration for a much longer shot, because the bullet does not contain the necessary energy to fatally wound the game at such increased distances, say "across that ravine over yonder".